tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7406281186499273552.post1861100776828045498..comments2009-04-20T07:56:45.680-04:00Comments on Inoperative Squirrel: I'm probably going to write a post...maybe...I think...Vivien V.http://www.blogger.com/profile/13566946081300565410noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7406281186499273552.post-64052604585727751592008-06-11T15:16:00.000-04:002008-06-11T15:16:00.000-04:00Argue away!! Weee!! :) It's your blog, after al...Argue away!! Weee!! :) It's your blog, after all. :)<BR/><BR/>I see the change you made in the post, and that's exactly what I based my whole comment on. :) Makes much more sense now. :)<BR/><BR/>As for #3, I agree about making things more active. But I don't agree that characters should never be on the brink. Sometimes it's necessary. "Able" or "unable" is very black and white, but "barely able" is gray area - which is often more interesting because it brings internal/external struggles and such. <BR/><BR/>That said, let's bring it back around to your "more active" statement, which is spot on. "Barely able" is classic telling (which I'm sure you know). But in showing form, this could be very, very powerful. <BR/><BR/>So I guess I'm agreeing with you in the active sense, but not in the on-the-brink sense. :)Tabithahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17420910182752981979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7406281186499273552.post-66641107276401985192008-06-11T12:17:00.000-04:002008-06-11T12:17:00.000-04:00Hey Tabitha,I realized where you got confused in t...Hey Tabitha,<BR/><BR/>I realized where you got confused in the post. I just changed it for clarity.Vivien V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13566946081300565410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7406281186499273552.post-47374595576112165732008-06-11T12:01:00.000-04:002008-06-11T12:01:00.000-04:00Hi Tabitha,I'm going to argue right back at you. ...Hi Tabitha,<BR/><BR/>I'm going to argue right back at you. Hope you don't mind.<BR/><BR/>I didn't say that the use of those words made the POV confusing. I found it very clear too that Bob was observing Susan, therefore it's his POV. What I said was that there are places where you can choose not to add in those words and just let the reader assume. I wasn't talking about shifting POV to show what Susan is actually doing at all. That would be bad. What I'm saying is that in many cases it's unnecessary to write out the fact that Bob doesn't know what Susan is doing. The reader will assume she's waiting for him just by her action, which you also said in your argument. I believe all of that is in my post as well.<BR/><BR/>As for sentence #3, my point was that you should make a character either able or unable to do something, rather than "barely able". "Barely able" leads to a vague description, in my opinion. I would rather a character break out into giggles, or manage to supress his giggles, rather than on the brink. It makes for more active writing. Have them actually doing something, instead of "barely" doing something. <BR/><BR/>Make sense?Vivien V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13566946081300565410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7406281186499273552.post-51602990481938860282008-06-11T11:54:00.000-04:002008-06-11T11:54:00.000-04:00Hey Rick,That correction you made gave me some tro...Hey Rick,<BR/><BR/>That correction you made gave me some trouble. I wasn't sure how to do it, but your edit makes sense now that I see it.<BR/><BR/>Gracias.<BR/><BR/>V.Vivien V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13566946081300565410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7406281186499273552.post-35034243039216258372008-06-11T11:29:00.000-04:002008-06-11T11:29:00.000-04:00I love the title of your post. :)I find it intere...I love the title of your post. :)<BR/><BR/>I find it interesting that you say using probably/seemed/apparently/etc. makes the POV confusing. And, I have to respectfully disagree...sorry. The POV in all your examples (except one) was clear to me *because* of the use of probably/etc. <BR/><BR/>Each of those words has its place, except if the writer is using third person omniscient. In omni, a narrator is telling the story. And the narrator knows all, so the probably/seemed/etc don't work. <BR/><BR/>"You could argue that in a strict third-person POV, the narrator cannot be sure of everything, all of the time"<BR/>Yep, and that's what I'm going to argue next. :)<BR/><BR/>In both first and third limited, the point of view is from one character. And that character can't *know* what's going on in the minds of the others. If we're unmistakeabely told the state-of-mind of someone not the main character, then we've just shifted POV. So if you truly want to stay in your MC's POV, then words like seemed/probably/apparently/etc are necessary. ;)<BR/><BR/>Caveat: while I think these words have places in good writing, they are few and far between. For the most part, they can be eliminated by simply showing the actions of the other character, then letting the reader decide. :) But I don't think they can be eliminated entirely.<BR/><BR/>Side note regarding example #3. Your revision actually changed the meaning of the sentence. The phrase "barely able" means that the person is able, but is very close to his limit - a tiny push could make him unable. "Couldn't" means he's already unable. So if someone is barely under control, they're still under control, but could lose it at any moment. But if someone is out of control, they've already lost it.Tabithahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17420910182752981979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7406281186499273552.post-52487128479629115702008-06-11T10:49:00.000-04:002008-06-11T10:49:00.000-04:00V., All good points. I find myself doing this, too...V., All good points. I find myself doing this, too. During editing, I search for keywords (seemed, presumably, apparently, etc.) to find and erradicate such uncertainty from the story. <BR/><BR/>One small nit. Your revised sentence: <BR/><I>Bob kicked the ball high up in the air; his method of confusing the opposing team.</I><BR/><BR/>No need for the semicolon since the last half of the sentence isn't a complete thought. Either a comma or em-dash will work there. Sorry, it's hard not to look for things to critique, even on a blog. <BR/><BR/>*He slaps himself for being so mean to the nice blogger*Rick Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07282089134073926222noreply@blogger.com